Rev Limit Issue

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imtheman0313 Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:54 am

I think I have made a new discovery. I mean, new to me. So, last weekendish, that odd little rev limiter issue reared its head again. I tried passing a minivan, shift down 5 to 3.....rpm gauge drops to zero, fuel cut and ign cut lights come on in Neptune. Obviously the rev limiter is turning on. First thing I did was hit the record button, and then I proceeded to recreate the situation; so that perhaps someone could decipher the data and tell me what's going on. After a few miles of this, I hit the record button again (which I thought ended the recording and saved the file to disk). I shut off Neptune, restarted the machine, restarted the engine (while moving), restarted Neptune, re-uploaded the current map I've been working with, then tried it all again. Bam, no rev limit issue. Rev normally to set limit in Neptune. I then proceed to check the recorded logs folder, EMPTY. HMMMM An indication, methinks?

I have noticed a few oddities. Sometimes I will make a number of changes at home, not in the vehicle, trying to optimize areas of the map that get a bit wonky (read, pointy) then get back in the car the next day to check the changes. It has taken me a while to realize that when making greater than a certain number of changes, live update does not automatically update the map upon reconnection to the ecu. It seems that after so much, we must hit the upload button to update the map. Which is fine, it seems reasonable enough, not a bug. Just an observation.

Second. I notice what may be a bug, or it may be my stupidity. There have been times when I want to open up the "stock" map that I have saved ALONG SIDE the already open and logging map, to note differences in a given area, or to sanity check myself. From time to time, it seems as though Neptune gets a bit confused as to which map its supposed to be loading/reading from, and it tries to load the stock map into the ROM. I see this when my A/F goes WWWAAAAAYYYYY rich, where before it was fine. In this case, I generally close the stock map, upload the current working map, close Neptune, restart Neptune, and things go back to normal. No idea if this is a glitch of some kind, or just a simple matter of "well, dumbass, don't open two at once, der" lol.

Any and all thoughts on these matters are appreciated.

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Kazliux Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:56 pm

Hey,
I have experienced rev limit if I do not upload basemap on engine off, but key on. No matter that it worked fine during mapping/uploading on running engine. Not sure if you have the same issue

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HRTuning Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:52 pm

Your changes are only live updated if you're Live (Connected). If you make changes offline you'll have to upload them to sync up.

Similarly, you can only connect to the Demon with one copy of software at a time, so whichever one is connected is what will be making changes. That means opening a second copy that's disconnected to review the differences cannot alter the Demon in any way. The port is already open and in use by the first copy.

Check VSS to ensure it's still seeing vehicle speed when this occurs.

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imtheman0313 Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:17 am

On the live update thing, that's what I figured. Something else must be happening. If I get more data I will update on that.

In regards to the VSS, I have *none*. Part of my ongoing diag. The OEM ecu I have shows speed as normal from SCS connection. Speedo works normally with Demon ecu, but Neptune reports 0 at stand still, and 4mph any time moving. Perhaps the limiter is because Neptune freaks out because VSS is so low? But if that were the case why is it an intermittent issue? The past 3 months or so there hasn't been a problem. It seemed to remedy. I will get another chance tomorrow to test.

I also have an issue where battery voltage reads as 0.5v at all times. I recently got my hands on the schematic, so I will be diagnosing the signal issues shortly.

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HRTuning Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:40 pm

If you have a VSS issue there's a good chance that's what triggered the limiter.

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imtheman0313 Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:11 am

I have traced the VSS signal all the way through the ecu, and it goes into U1 (IC1 [main calculator unit]) correctly. The signal input enters pin 40 as a nice crisp square wave. The only conclusion for the missing VSS in Neptune is that Neptune is reading the data incorrectly, or displaying it incorrectly.

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imtheman0313 Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:18 am

I also got a snippet of log saved where the limiter was doing its odd thing. Now, I just need to figure out how to attach it.

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HRTuning Sun Nov 17, 2019 3:46 pm

NepTune isn't responsible for the signal processing, so there's no way for it to misinterpret signals. All of the factory sensors we show you are simply relayed data from the ECU's RAM.

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imtheman0313 Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:26 am

LOL I knew you were going to say that (because I think I asked before and you already told me that). This thing is driving me crazy (pun intended). I've contacted Dave Blundell over at Moates to try and diag the issue further, hoping it's something weird with the hardware. I managed to trace the VSS signal through the ecu in its entirety (from pin at "B10" to pin 40 of the main calculator) and into the calculator I get a nice clean signal. Crispity clear square wave that varies with input as expected. My next question I guess is: is there a possibilty that IC1 has failed in a way to report data incorrectly, but only two data points? That seems extremely unlikely to me.

I'm trying to avoid chipping my last remaining ECU, or buying another. Partially, I like fiddling w things, and I'm a bit of a cheapskate. And I figure without a project of some kind, I might just go completely bonkers. Perhaps when I'm a bit closer to complete I'll do a nice little writeup on my poorman mods so you can get a better idea of how crazy I really am.

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HRTuning Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:57 am

That does seem unlikely, but I can't really offer you a different explanation.

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Coupe-r Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:00 pm

Before you get too carried away. Fix your wiring or ecu issues.

If you don't see battery voltage or VSS but ALL other sensors are reading, you have a wiring/conversion harness issue.

If you want to test, why not try another ecu with another platform to rule it out.

One thing for sure, its not Neptune or any settings Wink

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imtheman0313 Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:26 am

Ok, so I have looked through the (literally) everything. In the ECU, batt voltage is read off 1 pin (cannot remember pin name right now, but if you need it I can look it up). The pin has correct voltage, and the signal path through the ECU follows all normal laws of electronics (ie, nothing wrong electrically). Same goes for the VSS signal. The VSS comes into the ECU and goes to (iirc) pin 41 of the MCU. The pin, when given pulses, gets whopping beautiful square waves, at whatever F the input signal is. Nice hard 0-5v driven signal (as it should be out of that schmitt trigger there). Also, completely stock harness: specific vehicle is EG civic DX (all standard options, B000 man trans, man windows, yes power steering, yes ac, d15b7 fully "stock" engine/head)

Moral of the story, I have no clue whatsoever as to the cause of NepTunes reporting odd numbers. I can't imagine that those two signals alone would be missing if the MCU was damaged, or how the MCU could be damaged in such a way to cause no issues other than those two signals. I understand how NepTune pulls its data from the CN2 header; it's a serial connection, all or none. So is there anyone that has ever seen the MCU fail such that only one or two signals are missing? Is it possible the tune is to blame for the incorrect numbers being reported? Could the "base" (ie p30, p72, etc) cause the MCU to ignore those signals, so it just reports out the header whatever floating value exists?

I've spoken with Dave B over at Moates, and he says he's never seen such a thing. I have tried another ECU (stock) but have a different issue causing havoc (I believe it's B6 being connected and varying voltage when the stock map says I have no EGR. Code 0, but intermittent; only over 2k RPM. And a very funny idle).

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HRTuning Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:34 pm

Like Dave B and Moates, this is the first we've heard. We have thousands running on this software since its inception, which is quickly nearing 20 years. I wish I had some other suggestions for you.

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imtheman0313 Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:36 am

It is most surely an odd one. My only conclusion is that the MCU must be damaged somehow. I will not stop until I have repaired the issue, however. If not for anything else, then for posterity alone. That and I'm stubborn. Perhaps I will get a 4th ECU and use it, put this one on the bench only (so I don't just put it off until I get rid of the vehicle.) I do believe I will be moving to standalone soon, so the entire thing will be a non-issue at some point. But, I still want to finger oot exactly what the crap is going on. As I continue, I will post updates, perhaps it'll help somebody at some point (doubtful).

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imtheman0313 Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:57 am

Actually, one more q. Has anyone else reported any issues with ELD system not functioning? Mine never goes into low charge mode. Although, this could be a side effect of the battery voltage reading incorrectly, now that I think about it.....crap spackle.

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