Rev Limit Issue

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HRTuning Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:40 pm

Each input has its own separate pin, if you look at the pinout. One input not working doesn't mean another will or won't work.

VSS comes directly from the ECU which gets it directly from the VSS pulses. Nothing to do with our software.

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imtheman0313 Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:17 am

Just rechecked, rev limiter is still an issue, only in gear 4. Not sure exactly whats going on. It's the actual rev limiter, not a dizzy issue. All dizzy numbers into ecu report correctly in neptune. Could it be related to the VSS reading at all? To reiterate though, the problem only arises in 4th gear, hot day, climbing hill (high load) first second and third are all fine.

Update on other things, VSS no change; batt reads .5v (not .2v) and never changes, and gear shows 1 only (probably related to VSS issue)

Could somebody verify the waveshape of the signal from VSS into ECU AT connector B? I see positive and negative swinging signal, with slew times related to capacitor charging (ie logarithmic slope). Possibly the breakout board internal to the ECU?

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imtheman0313 Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:38 am

What I meant was the data that Neptune sees, does all that data enter the program through the serial data connection at CN2, or is some of the data read from the external data header (ie the socket for external memory)? The reason I ask is if the data comes from different sources, maybe the ecu is damaged along one channel, but the other is fine. I can repair the ecu if it is somehow damaged, it's kinda what I do.

I do notice the VSS signal enters the ecu, and goes straight to the front breakout board soldered to the main board. Has anyone sat down and traced the entirety of the ecu, is there a diagram somewhere I can follow signal paths and trace down the issue? Is there any way I could intercept the live data stream and extract raw data to see what neptune sees, before it prettifies it for my eyes? If not, I would like to throw my hat in the ring for a breakdown of the ecu, complete schematic etc etc.

I think what I will do this weekend I guess is plop in the OEM ecu, and use the fancy shmancy computer to see if it will give me VSS data through the service connector. If it does, then I know the data into the ecu is fine, the next step would be tracing out the internals of the modded ecu, watching signals mid path, and finding the issue the hard way.

Also, I've noticed that the rev limit issue only arises when it's very hot outside. Brand new dizzy (which I know doesn't necessarily mean much). It still seems to only be in 4th gear, under WOT, engine fully warm. I will continue diagnosing these issues, and if I come up with any solutions will definitely post back with fixes.

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HRTuning Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:07 pm

As mentioned the VSS not reading correctly has something to do with the signals themselves, wiring, or the ECU's VSS input electronics. The Demon unit and software have nothing to do with it.

If you plop in a different ECU and don't see the same issue, that's telling that your ECU has an issue.

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imtheman0313 Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Ok, so some testing today, and f!@#...lol I plopped in an OEM ecu, and my scanner won't connect, so I cannot check that OEM hardware sees the signal from VSS correctly. My guess is the next step is tracing the signal path manually through the ecu, see if it just stops somewhere. I also tried my other chipped ecu, and could not get datalogging to work. The ecu is chipped with a nearly identical "kit" from Moates, so no idea what's going on there. If I put the Demon into another ecu, do I need to reserialize it or something? I couldn't find anything in search about swapping Demon from one ecu to another.

I am going to run out here in a few minutes, once the laptop is charged up a lil bit, and check all the Batt power pins to make sure they are correct. I see that the ecu also uses VSS to calculate load, which could possibly explain the rev limit issue. I did come across another post, however, that might lend a clue to this issue. I saw something about the injector test circuit causing a rev limit quite low, but his seemed to be in every gear, whereas mine is only happening in 4th as far as I can tell.

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HRTuning Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:51 pm

The Demon can be moved to any chipped ECU. Make sure J12 is cut for logging.

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imtheman0313 Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:27 pm

Odd then. The Moates kit socket has round pins instead of the spring loaded deals that came with the demon, could the demon possibly just not be connecting correctly with that socket I wonder? I cannot remember today if the engine started in the other ECU, I guess I can run out real quick and check.

A new issue has arisen, namely, I cannot get UEGO input to read correctly. I check the wire with multimeter when connected to ECU, and everything looks good, but Neptune shows only a steady voltage nowhere near actual. I have tried using all preset widebands (just looking for any variable signal), adding my own with complete AEM voltage reference list, using the inputs tab, and using B6 and D12 input pins on ECU: to no avail. Nothing seems to work. Is there another ECU modification that must be made for either of these inputs to function? I cannot find anything anywhere about these particular inputs.

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imtheman0313 Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:18 pm

Update, I found reference to removing R2 and R3 to enable B6 input, done and done, input functioning correctly now. The next thing is to get back to figuring out what's going on with the battery readout and VSS, and maybe finding out why the demon won't log in the other ECU. But for now, back to the tune.

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HRTuning Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:15 pm

It could very well have to do with the socket if it's not the right type for the included headers.

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imtheman0313 Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:53 am

So I have this thought about the VSS deal. The ECU doesn't really need VSS input other than shifting the automatics, so I wonder if that's why Neptune doesn't see the signal as it's driven? Perhaps the line to the IC backend is held steady, or the line is not taken to the IC because there is no need on manuals? Has anyone piped VSS all the way through on manual ECUs? Do I have to install bits of the automatic control circuitry to enable it? Only reason I ask is because I would like to get the TunerView at some point, and have speed data on the screen, but if all it's going to give me is 0 or 4mph, there's not much point in trying to use it. I still have no idea on the battery readout, though. Neptune shows -0.5v at all times, no change. Dunno what that's about yet.

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HRTuning Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:27 pm

Not correct. VSS is present for manuals just as well.

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imtheman0313 Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:55 am

Interesting. That means either the ecu is malfunctioning or something in the wiring must not be right. The engine and dash harnesses have not been molested, and I don't think that Honda OEM harnesses fail much (feel free to correct me on that). The vehicle is a desert car, so I don't think its a corrosion issue..... I wonder if anyone you know could provide me with an ECU schematic so I can trace down potential board failures? I could probably make one up myself, but I'm moderately lazy; so if someone has done it before me, that would help immensely.

I have traced the VSS input signal to a breakout board midboard, and I cannot identify the components on the breakout (surface mount things) I have called a few tuners here in Vegas, and a couple in Phoenix and Tucson, and nobody seems to know anything further than replace the ECU. When I tried that, nothing changed. Which could mean vehicle side issue, or a common issue across many ECUs?

Also, how would I order just the chip kit that came with the demon? Specifically, the 28P socket that came with it? The standard Moates chip kit uses a socket that has round pin holes for the ZIF to push into, and I have a feeling that that is what is preventing using this extra ECU I have chipped already for the demon. The socket that came with the demon has square holes with "spring loaded" pins, to ensure good pin connection. I'll have a look around Digikey real quick in a bit to see if I can find it, but just in case, if someone has a part number?

I'm also concerned about what Neptune says is battery voltage (still lol) Should I be? Is that data used for anything other than injector offsets? Fueling seems to be fine and changes accordingly when I make changes in Neptune, so I don't think there's an issue internally, just what is being reported to the demon, if that's possible?

I do appreciate the support though, not sure if I've mentioned before. Even if you don't have answers, just bouncing it off someone, seeing it on a screen, or just that one comment that sparks the idea is incredibly helpful.

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HRTuning Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:30 pm

There may be a schematic online, since the company who was selling these stopped selling them a number of years ago.

Email Moates and see if their socket kit is the one that's fine for Demon. I'm sure they have one that works.

All good, I know what you mean!

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imtheman0313 Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:07 am

Dunno if I should start a new thread for a simple little question or not, so I'll start here. I wonder if there is a flex fuel option somewhere I haven't seen? I am wanting to add it to my vehicle/tune, but can't see an entry/ table anywhere. I would like the ability to get fuel anywhere, at any ethanol level, and the tune maintain what I set. I would use closed loop, but haven't set up wideband closed loop yet, and would like to run open loop until I get the entirety of the fuel tables sorted to my liking.

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HRTuning Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:25 pm

There is a sensor adjustments option, which can be used with a 0-5v flex fuel converter.

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