P06 + Civic dizzy + Neptune + Toyota 3sgte (MR2) = ?

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EGT k-type sensors, analog inputs, grounds, 12v power/ground

Gandalf Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:19 am

I am hooking up 4 individual EGT k-type sensors, I have 4 leads soldered into the analog inputs demonstrated in your video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlSDlkl9dVQ)
However, where do I connect the 4 respective grounds for these sensors? I have an egt amplifier/converter which provides linear 0-5v outputs (signals and respective grounds). Also where is the best 12v power supply (vcc) and the respective ground for the amplifier itself? Easy to supply the amp from anywhere and ground it anywhere, but is there an optimal suggestion?

Thanks very much!

Gandalf

 
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HRTuning Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:58 pm

If you have a converter it needs a common ground with the ECU. Switched ignition source is best for power.

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Gandalf Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:29 am

So the main ground for the converter, and the 4 sensor grounds, should all connect to the same common ground? which harness pin/wire? D21 and D22 are referred to as "sensor grounds"... will that do? A26 is a "logic ground", is that a better option?

I really appreciate the prompt replies, as always... Smile

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HRTuning Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:05 pm

Whichever way you go verify continuity and voltages match between converter output and ECU input in the software.

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Gandalf Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:05 am

Quick question about individual cylinder trims...
I have ind EGT sensors, at identical distances from the head (about 3"). I am encountering some high EGT temps in cyl #3, so I have dialled in more fuel to compensate. But I have not seen much if any temp difference between about 12% more fuel and 24% more fuel in that cyl. How is that possible? Yet, if I put in a negative fuel value for cyl #4, I hear the difference in the idle immediately... I tried a new EGT sensor in cyl #3, it behaved the same way for temp results.

I also seem to remember that when I dialled out -10% in cyl #3, it barely ran at all, the car behaved like it was on 3 cyls. The injectors are 1000's, showed factory flow values around 1075, plenty big for my power level.

I will do more experimenting tomorrow, but something seems off... from reading posts on here, to turn an injector off completely it would be an input value of -100, to double the flow from the injector it would be a value of 100. It seems like that max trim in cyl #3 is 10% or so.

Thanks as always!

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HRTuning Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:54 pm

-100% should never be used. You're forgetting there is still an injector opening time added.

-10% of some tiny pulse at idle is going to have big consequences. Your injectors are large and we're lucky the factory ECU is able to run them at all, since it wasn't designed to handle such small pulses.

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Gandalf Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:10 pm

HRTuning wrote:-100% should never be used. You're forgetting there is still an injector opening time added.

-10% of some tiny pulse at idle is going to have big consequences. Your injectors are large and we're lucky the factory ECU is able to run them at all, since it wasn't designed to handle such small pulses.


Just going by what has been put forth as information here:
HRTuning wrote:The tranmission menu will show up in the next update.

Individual injector disable can be done via the cylinder trim, set to -100 to disable.


So are saying that a difference between 12% and 24% will have a negligible effect due to the size of the injector? Isn't that making the pulses longer? The oem computer/Neptune seems to have no difficulty handling precise incremental changes at idle, and idle has been 100% controllable thus far, responding to fuel changes in any cell.

Perhaps I will try more negative values in the cyls that are cooler, and upping the fuel map overall.

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HRTuning Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:21 pm

Yes, it's altering the fuel value by percentage which affects the final output time.

Yes, -100 will make the fuel value 0. I don't suggest doing it and it's not relevant to your needs. Are you wanting my advice now or 10 years ago? That's how old your quoted post is and yours is not the same question.

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Gandalf Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:28 am

It is relevant to the scale of effective alteration possible on an individual cylinder basis, it's not what I plan/need to do, it provides the context of the scale range; -100 to 100...
That information is just as relevant today. Smile
Just wondering why I wasn't seeing changes in temps in my third cyl with a doubling of percentage of fuel being sent 12% to 24%.
Will test more right now.

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HRTuning Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:12 am

Your temperatures I can't answer, but you were for sure getting more fuel in the cylinder if your changes took effect.

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MSD 6a ignition and coil, dwell settings

Gandalf Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:40 am

Thanks, I confirmed cyl fuel trims are working properly, the injector latency needed tweaking and I retuned the lower rpm range AFRs... cyl 3 especially runs hottest, and I am close to finding a trim fuel amount that helps with the temps but doesn't hurt performance... need the dyno.

What recommendations are there for ignition dwell settings if using an MSD 6a ignition and blaster 2 coil?

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HRTuning Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:52 pm

Ya, it's always been cylinder 3 that gets hotter.

The MSDs always created noise, so I've never run one. I'm sure there are tweaks you could do to dwell to improve things, but they're made to work with factory systems so that's not something we've looked into.

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Gandalf Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:56 pm

Can we examine/discuss the dwell setting options in Neptune, and how they relate to the required coil charge times especially at higher RPM? In other tuning programs a min and max dwell setting can usually be input(in ms) in relation to RPM to help keep within the coil specs and maximise spark without too long duration of dwell... Given my max RPM of no more than 7800, and a relatively steady 13.8-14v range:

How does cam angle relate to a dwell time (in ms) per RPM? By putting in a higher cam angle value, does it shorten the coil charge time?... so to shorten the charge time further at high RPM, higher values need to be input for cam angle (to pick an example, instead of 46@8950 we might input 48 )?

How does the battery voltage multiplier affect the coil charge duration (ms)?

Not to confuse anything, but just to satisfy a niggling curiosity, if I am compensating on the entire ignition map by, say, 5 degrees, to offset a modified shaft distributor which is maxed towards full advance, does that throw off the dwell settings which are based on cam angle? ("cam angle" must be referring to the intake/dizzy cam...)

Finally, as a broader issue which I will have to address soon, since the dizzy is driven off the intake cam, if I were to play with my adjustable cam gears, will that need to be compensated for in the ignition map (pretty sure yes I would have to remove the degrees I advance on the intake cam from the ignition map to keep the relative amount of advance the same)?

And, any other inter-related issues given the above, on dwell duration?

Thanks very much as always.

Gandalf

 
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Gandalf Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:50 pm

Some math:
one crank rev at 7700 RPM takes 7.79 ms
so,
one crank degree takes .02164 ms (@ 7700 RPM)
therefor,
one cam degree will be double that since the cam is half-speed compared to crank, which gives us .04328 ms

So every cam degree that we alter the cam angle by will affect the coil charge time by .04328 ms at 7700 RPM.

So the question remains, in order to shorten the coil charge time, do I want to lower the values in "cam angle" fields, or raise them?

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HRTuning Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:03 pm

You can see in the table that the starting angle is increasing as RPM increases. Starting later by lowering angle would then lower the charge time.

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