P06 + Civic dizzy + Neptune + Toyota 3sgte (MR2) = ?

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P06 + Civic dizzy + Neptune + Toyota 3sgte (MR2) = ?

Gandalf Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:59 pm

Hello all,

As posted in this thread,
http://www.hrtuning.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1748&highlight=&sid=88521b8702916dd0f65255bf49174a8f
I am going to run my MR2 off Neptune. Why? Well, MR2 ecu's aren't really chip-able or tuneable, and it's great to utilize the reliability of oem Toyota/Honda technology and R&D, plus the features/support of Neptune. And I'm a bit of a DIY-er. It's not exactly for the faint of heart, but it's also not as impossible as it may seem. Cost-wise very effective compared to MR2 alternatives.

Don't gasp, your beloved Honda P06 ecu looks like this:



The Honda dizzy with shaft adapter:



The MR2 rotor spins in the opposite direction, so the sparkplug wiring on the Prelude cap looks like this:



Going igniterless, so from the Honda IGT signal through a modified J&S Knockguard (this needs to be done), then straight out to the white wire points input of an MSD 6a.

The dizzy adapter was drilled just a shade shy of providing enough advance (16 BTDC), so it was easier for me to TIG a larger ear onto the dizzy. Now I get up to 18 degrees of advance:



1077cc injectors from FIC (1050's that average from 1072cc - 1080cc):


Gandalf

 
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Gandalf Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:07 pm

Aeromotive FPR:



Mac solenoid, with really short silicone tubing to keep things clean and direct:



This my version of the solenoid setup:



And wanting to improve response speed for IAT's, I modified the Honda (Integra?) IAT sensor:


Gandalf

 
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Gandalf Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:23 pm

Now... as you may imagine, I have some questions... the car starts but runs rough/surging between 300rpm and 900rpm, and does not respond to throttle. This was on a Crome basemap from a friend.

I then installed Neptune, built a 10 psi basemap with as many appropriate settings I could muster, and tried again. It ran exactly the same way.

Some setting/questions:
-Since no VTEC, I just create a "low-cam map"? And set high cam out of RPM range? No VTEC options are enabled.
-boost cut enabled
-PWM enabled, no Low/High input selected
-set duty cycle selected, invert checked for NC
-Hold Duty cycle at 0
-Until this load at 9.1
-Freq = 31
-low and high duty cycles set to 30 (I believe this is where you enter duty cycle for "Set Duty Cycle" test runs)
-no "Duty Cycles for Above PSI" entered yet in Gear-based target PWM
-Gear Low and High targets all set to 10

Plan is to use "set duty cycle" to determine boost results.

WB is the LC-1, properly calibrated and both analog outputs set to WB voltages, mirrored in Neptune. Currently set to log from the first analog wire. Have built a custom display gauge out of an old Ipod for numerous controls/options... that's another story.

TPS voltage range entered, I am using a Lincoln LS TB and TPS... .49v - 4.65v

So I have a few issues to resolve that likely have nothing to do with Neptune, but Neptune lets me see what error codes I was getting. The CEL was permanently on in the car, in the ON key position and during running.

Error codes were:
- code 4; CKP Sensor Well this would explain a lot of things... I checked and it's wired correctly in the ecu, I'm betting the wires cracked/wrong in the used dizzy...
- code 10; IAT sensor (I was using a Bosch IAT, I'll swap it out for the modified Honda one tonight)... or does a code 10 mean a disconnect exclusively?

For a time, I also noticed a checkmark by "anti-theft" in the Data chart, not sure why since I have no inputs selected.

Screenshot of the (barely) running basemap (notice the RPMs supposedly up around 2000 - 4000 RPM - CKP-related issues probably)



Any thoughts/help/comments most welcome.

Gandalf

 
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Gandalf Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:55 pm

I did all of the resistance testing and continuity testing on the CKP sensor and harness wiring, everything checks out. I wonder if the CKP sensor can pass all tests but still be failing a proper function to throw the code...
-Also checked continuity between the pins and the board of the ecu, and traced continuity in the ecu all the way to the little hic-1 board

so, at a bit of a loss...
Otherwise I am down to replacing the dizzy guts or the CKP sensor if I can find one, or getting another ecu and starting over.

Anything in my Neptune basemap setup that looks erroneous/problematic?

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HRTuning Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:44 pm

With VTEC disabled it'll only use the low cam map.

Beyond that there's nothing in your tune specifically that can cause an IAT or CKP error. That's all hardware.

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Gandalf Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:12 pm

Thank you, good to know the basemap looks ok... I didn't think the errors were Neptune related, but it is good to get some confirmation that the basemap in general looks fine to you. Bit of a learning curve altogether. Thanks on the Vtec detail.

Apparently it is completely possible for the dizzy troubleshooting to pass all Honda tests, but still be failing... According to Honda.
Ultimately an oscilloscope will tell all. I have one in my software, but I need to configure things for this Honda ecu and I haven't done the homework on the voltage differences between Toyota and Honda, as far as the audio-interface I use for my wave analysis. I was getting a nice IGT squarewave in my software and using it for my TVIS control (via an arduino + servo), but I want to make sure I have the resistors correct for the extra Honda IGT voltage so I don't peak out my inputs.

Going to swap the guts in the dizzy this aft... may not need to worry about CKP analysis if it works.

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Gandalf Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:27 pm

I was just uploading my newest basemap onto the ecu, with the ecu unconnected to the car/harness, and that's when I noticed (again) that there is a checkmark beside "Anti-theft" in the Data list...
What does that mean?

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HRTuning Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:28 pm

If the ECU wasn't powered and in the vehicle then none of that is live data.

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Gandalf Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:35 pm

Just curious...
Ok I won't worry about it Smile Thank you again

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HRTuning Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:43 pm

No problem.

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Gandalf Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:14 am

My CKP error code was indeed after all the ecu. Swapped out the CKP sensor in the dizzy needlessly... although they do tend to cook often, so I'm thinking it as preventative Wink . Found a new Canadian Civic CX P06 ecu from a wrecker, redid the Neptune install, made a jumper harness this time (instead of the re-wiring inside the ecu) which will make swapping in another ecu to test etc much easier next time... luck having it there won't be a next time.

Started immediately.
Learning the software... going to begin tuning soon. Cool So far enjoying it immensely.

Jumper harness, with guard from the Honda Civic modified:



Made my own clear cover for the ecu:


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HRTuning Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:21 pm

With your attention to detail I think it will go very well. Keep us posted here.

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Gandalf Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:30 pm

Thanks Smile

Regarding the target AFR's table, can I add columns and rows, or is it just set where it is at 10 x 16, and meant to give you an overall comparison? I automatically thought about having the same columns/rows as in the afr map...

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HRTuning Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:14 pm

It's 10x16 and that's way overkill already. You don't need nearly that many target breakpoints.

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Gandalf Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:49 pm

Thankyou!

Ran into another issue today, Neptune was freezing on me during datalogging, I would have to stop recording, disconnect, and re-connect, it was also affecting the the performance... I suspect it was because I tried it through a powered usb hub. Power requirements shouldn't be an issue, but maybe bandwidth through the one usb port is?

Also, have a question regarding pwm, I have the "Hold Duty Cycle AT" set at 100%, "Until This load (PSI)" set at 8, Low Duty Cycle set at 30. Invert checked. 31 hz selected. (This is with a Mac solenoid). My ext WG spring is a 10 psi spring. Boost hot cut set at 12.9 psi. Right now the car is boosting until about 10 psi, I assume it's because of the duty cycle being low still and probably just going off the spring, but I am seeing on the "Duty Cycle" gauge it's reading .1, 1 , 2 etc at idle... shouldn't it be reading 100% duty cycle untiI I hit 8 psi?

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